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Student Discussion Forum - Unit I Topics
This page serves as an informal forum for discussing topics related to our class that we may not have time to cover in class discussions. You can talk about whatever you want here, as long as it has something to do with the current Unit. Did you disagree with something that was said in class? If so, share your opinions and ideas here! Read what other people have written, and respond to their ideas with your own! Feel free to chat with friends on this page as well!
Share your ideas and thoughts here:
Mr. Welker says: I think it's interesting to think about how important rivers have been to China's history. If it weren't for rivers, there would never have been agriculture, and without agriculture there could never have been civilization as we know it. Other than for irrigation, though, rivers have only caused China headaches!
kevin xu says: Obviously, rivers haven't only been used for irrigation. With the three Major rivers of China, which fork through a large portion of Central China, a dependable method for transportation is offered. With this method of transportation, many physical barriers are bypassed, allowing easier trade, and greatly positively affecting China's economy growth. Also, a question on my part. Is it possible that even without the rivers, agriculture still would've developed in China? Just curious. I tried researching a bit, and came up with this... very long boring site but informative. http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rochelle.f/The-Discovery-of-Agriculture.html
"The only plausible explanations for the development of agriculture are those that are able to answer the question of why agriculture did not develop before 10,000 year ago. One explanation that does not suffer from this problem is that suggested by L H Morgan (1877) and V Gordon Childe (1955) and others that agriculture developed as part of a natural process of cultural evolution when a certain level of knowledge and technology had developed."There are more possible explanations of the development of agriculture on that site, but my main counter-argument to how rivers are needed for the development of agriculture is the question, "How would a country without a river, such as Cyprus, have developed agriculture?" An obvious answer would be that it wasn't developed but rather brought in by travelers, but, another question branching off my main one, Could agriculture have been started another way without rivers? I know I'm going a bit off topic from China (sorry Mr. Welker :D) but I'm just curious. One more question that I hope could be answered by another person, "Were China and Mesopotamia the only two regions that 'invented' agriculture?" Feel free to edit my comment, or if you would be so kind, answer my questions.
Tara says: "Were China and Mesopotamia the only two regions that 'invented' agriculture?" >> My opinion would be yes. I think that the word "invented" means a group of people figured it out by themselves. People from Europe or other parts of Asia were probably introduced to agriculture through the Mesopotamians or Chinese then.
As for the comment about rivers and how if they weren't there, would agriculture still be invented?, I'm not entirely sure. I do agree somewhat with the site when it said the natural process of cultural evolution helped with this discovery, because I believe humans can get smarter all the time. However, if rivers didn't exist, nothing would be discovered either and everyone would stick to hunting and gathering. So I think both theories are correct in a way, and both evolution and rivers play a big role in the invention of agriculture.
kevin xu says: What else might have influenced the invention of agriculture? I really doubt that hunter-gatherers one day looked at a plant and somehow noticed that water made it grow, or that plants grew from seeds. Any ideas?
tara says: (i give up on capitilizing, sorry for those who care) anywayss >> lol i doubt that they did that either. i don't really know the answer, it's like one of those "big life questions". but i would think they found out by some sort of mistake and once they thought about it, they put two and two together and guessed the answer.
kevin xu says: That's interesting... I guess that would work given the fact that they had like thousands of years to put it to their head that something made the little green things grow from the ground.
sean says:I would agree with you guys about how they found out about agriculture. Perhaps maybe they accidentally spilled some water over the plants, and they grew. It probably took them years to actually found out what happened and they would have to ponder if the "thing" that was getting bigger was healthy or not. But then again, it seems strange that it would be true. Plants usually take months or years to grow, and i doubt that the hunter/gatherers would stare at the plant for 2 days straight and realize that it grew a millimeter. Even if there were different stages of the same plant in the area, how would they know that the plants were the same? I mean, From their little knowledge, i bet they would think that the plants were completely different. Another thing i found weird was how the people of China found out about growing more plants. Did they just find the seeds, had a sudden urge to bury it in the ground and water it? What do you guys think? And sorry about posting that comment, i forgot that you had to use the easyedit thing -_-.
carson says: Hahah Sean, i doubt they just spilled some water and it grew cuz it would take a while for that plant to grow like you said. China probably found out by planting seeds around the Yellow River and the plants grew overtime by itself since the river spills (can't find the right word) water out from time to time. Not sure either, but we can probably google it up =)
kevin xu says: Hahah Carson, i doubt they just looked at some little tiny ball-like thing and decided to dig a small hole and place it in that hole thinking that it would grow cuz it would take a while for that plant to grow like you said :D.
Jeffrey Liu says: Lol guys I doubt the Chinese just planted the seeds around the Yellow River and found out somehow 6 months later the seeds grew into a crop. If the river "spilled" like Carson said it would have most likely been in the flooding season where the seed would be unable to grow. The invention of agriculture was probably accidental. Maybe the areas around the Yellow River had some sort of natural irrigating system where the river water flowed into the grounds of the seed. The seed was probably planted by someonewho was very bored and did it for fun :p.
Sean Liu says: It's really strange if what you guys say is true. I mean, isn't the flooding season when it destroys all the crops? And that usually results in a great famine and lots of people starve to death. I don't think that the floods actually watered the seeds and made it grow, or else i don't think there would be a famine every flooding season. The floods were probably so strong it wiped the seeds away or something.
kevin xu says: Man I love these answers, "The seed was probably planted by someonewho was very bored and did it for fun :p." This is fun :D
tara says: lol! awesome answer.
KLIKI~ check this out.. it might help with the qs... and put an end to all the weird made up answers.
Today, a new look at the birth of a very old technology. The University of Houston's College of Engineering presents this series about the machines that make our civilization run, and the people whose ingenuity created them.
Scholars have been turning their lenses back on the invention of farming. We know farming began eight to ten thousand years ago in the Middle East and the Holy Land. We also know it began after certain wild wheats mutated.
The seeds of those wild grains weren't as fat and rich as modern wheat, but they blew in the wind. They sowed themselves. You could harvest them without having to plant them.
Modern wheat was a fertile mutation of wild wheat. It made much better food. But its seeds don't go anywhere. They're bound more firmly to the stalk, and they cannot ride the wind. Without farmers to collect and sow wheat, it dies. Modern wheat creates farming by wedding its own survival to that of the farmer.
In 8000 B.C. the Natufians -- a hunting-gathering people -- lived in the region around Jericho and the Dead Sea. They were first to cultivate this new mutation -- this modern wheat. They became the first farmers.
Forgot the website.. just go on google and type 'how was agriculture invented.' KK thats it ;)))
celestine says: whoops, did the comment thing. :D so copy and paste: How do you think the Meso people and the Chinese passed it on? We didnt' all share the same language or writing before. There was no universal language. Did they do hand motions? Or do you think the people just went and saw for themselves? Anybody?
Share your ideas and thoughts here:
Mr. Welker says: I think it's interesting to think about how important rivers have been to China's history. If it weren't for rivers, there would never have been agriculture, and without agriculture there could never have been civilization as we know it. Other than for irrigation, though, rivers have only caused China headaches!
kevin xu says: Obviously, rivers haven't only been used for irrigation. With the three Major rivers of China, which fork through a large portion of Central China, a dependable method for transportation is offered. With this method of transportation, many physical barriers are bypassed, allowing easier trade, and greatly positively affecting China's economy growth. Also, a question on my part. Is it possible that even without the rivers, agriculture still would've developed in China? Just curious. I tried researching a bit, and came up with this... very long boring site but informative. http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rochelle.f/The-Discovery-of-Agriculture.html
"The only plausible explanations for the development of agriculture are those that are able to answer the question of why agriculture did not develop before 10,000 year ago. One explanation that does not suffer from this problem is that suggested by L H Morgan (1877) and V Gordon Childe (1955) and others that agriculture developed as part of a natural process of cultural evolution when a certain level of knowledge and technology had developed."There are more possible explanations of the development of agriculture on that site, but my main counter-argument to how rivers are needed for the development of agriculture is the question, "How would a country without a river, such as Cyprus, have developed agriculture?" An obvious answer would be that it wasn't developed but rather brought in by travelers, but, another question branching off my main one, Could agriculture have been started another way without rivers? I know I'm going a bit off topic from China (sorry Mr. Welker :D) but I'm just curious. One more question that I hope could be answered by another person, "Were China and Mesopotamia the only two regions that 'invented' agriculture?" Feel free to edit my comment, or if you would be so kind, answer my questions.
Tara says: "Were China and Mesopotamia the only two regions that 'invented' agriculture?" >> My opinion would be yes. I think that the word "invented" means a group of people figured it out by themselves. People from Europe or other parts of Asia were probably introduced to agriculture through the Mesopotamians or Chinese then.
As for the comment about rivers and how if they weren't there, would agriculture still be invented?, I'm not entirely sure. I do agree somewhat with the site when it said the natural process of cultural evolution helped with this discovery, because I believe humans can get smarter all the time. However, if rivers didn't exist, nothing would be discovered either and everyone would stick to hunting and gathering. So I think both theories are correct in a way, and both evolution and rivers play a big role in the invention of agriculture.
kevin xu says: What else might have influenced the invention of agriculture? I really doubt that hunter-gatherers one day looked at a plant and somehow noticed that water made it grow, or that plants grew from seeds. Any ideas?
tara says: (i give up on capitilizing, sorry for those who care) anywayss >> lol i doubt that they did that either. i don't really know the answer, it's like one of those "big life questions". but i would think they found out by some sort of mistake and once they thought about it, they put two and two together and guessed the answer.
kevin xu says: That's interesting... I guess that would work given the fact that they had like thousands of years to put it to their head that something made the little green things grow from the ground.
sean says:I would agree with you guys about how they found out about agriculture. Perhaps maybe they accidentally spilled some water over the plants, and they grew. It probably took them years to actually found out what happened and they would have to ponder if the "thing" that was getting bigger was healthy or not. But then again, it seems strange that it would be true. Plants usually take months or years to grow, and i doubt that the hunter/gatherers would stare at the plant for 2 days straight and realize that it grew a millimeter. Even if there were different stages of the same plant in the area, how would they know that the plants were the same? I mean, From their little knowledge, i bet they would think that the plants were completely different. Another thing i found weird was how the people of China found out about growing more plants. Did they just find the seeds, had a sudden urge to bury it in the ground and water it? What do you guys think? And sorry about posting that comment, i forgot that you had to use the easyedit thing -_-.
carson says: Hahah Sean, i doubt they just spilled some water and it grew cuz it would take a while for that plant to grow like you said. China probably found out by planting seeds around the Yellow River and the plants grew overtime by itself since the river spills (can't find the right word) water out from time to time. Not sure either, but we can probably google it up =)
kevin xu says: Hahah Carson, i doubt they just looked at some little tiny ball-like thing and decided to dig a small hole and place it in that hole thinking that it would grow cuz it would take a while for that plant to grow like you said :D.
Jeffrey Liu says: Lol guys I doubt the Chinese just planted the seeds around the Yellow River and found out somehow 6 months later the seeds grew into a crop. If the river "spilled" like Carson said it would have most likely been in the flooding season where the seed would be unable to grow. The invention of agriculture was probably accidental. Maybe the areas around the Yellow River had some sort of natural irrigating system where the river water flowed into the grounds of the seed. The seed was probably planted by someonewho was very bored and did it for fun :p.
Sean Liu says: It's really strange if what you guys say is true. I mean, isn't the flooding season when it destroys all the crops? And that usually results in a great famine and lots of people starve to death. I don't think that the floods actually watered the seeds and made it grow, or else i don't think there would be a famine every flooding season. The floods were probably so strong it wiped the seeds away or something.
kevin xu says: Man I love these answers, "The seed was probably planted by someonewho was very bored and did it for fun :p." This is fun :D
tara says: lol! awesome answer.
KLIKI~ check this out.. it might help with the qs... and put an end to all the weird made up answers.
Today, a new look at the birth of a very old technology. The University of Houston's College of Engineering presents this series about the machines that make our civilization run, and the people whose ingenuity created them.
Scholars have been turning their lenses back on the invention of farming. We know farming began eight to ten thousand years ago in the Middle East and the Holy Land. We also know it began after certain wild wheats mutated.
The seeds of those wild grains weren't as fat and rich as modern wheat, but they blew in the wind. They sowed themselves. You could harvest them without having to plant them.
Modern wheat was a fertile mutation of wild wheat. It made much better food. But its seeds don't go anywhere. They're bound more firmly to the stalk, and they cannot ride the wind. Without farmers to collect and sow wheat, it dies. Modern wheat creates farming by wedding its own survival to that of the farmer.
In 8000 B.C. the Natufians -- a hunting-gathering people -- lived in the region around Jericho and the Dead Sea. They were first to cultivate this new mutation -- this modern wheat. They became the first farmers.
Forgot the website.. just go on google and type 'how was agriculture invented.' KK thats it ;)))
celestine says: whoops, did the comment thing. :D so copy and paste: How do you think the Meso people and the Chinese passed it on? We didnt' all share the same language or writing before. There was no universal language. Did they do hand motions? Or do you think the people just went and saw for themselves? Anybody?
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| Started By | Thread Subject | Replies | Last Post | ||
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| CelestineAu | How did the Mesos and the Chinese pass on agriculture? | 1 | Sep 7 2007, 4:19 AM EDT by CarsonL | ||
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Thread started: Sep 6 2007, 5:37 AM EDT
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How do you think the Meso people and the Chinese passed it on? We didnt' all share the same language or writing before. There was no universal language. Did they do hand motions? Or do you think the people just went and saw for themselves? Anybody?
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| SeanL | How did the agriculture of China come to be? | 0 | Aug 30 2007, 10:32 AM EDT by SeanL | ||
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Thread started: Aug 30 2007, 10:32 AM EDT
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I would agree with you guys about how they found out about agriculture. Perhaps maybe they accidentally spilled some water over the plants, and they grew. It probably took them years to actually found out what happened and they would have to ponder if the "thing" that was getting bigger was healthy or not. But then again, it seems strange that it would be true. Plants usually take months or years to grow, and i doubt that the hunter/gatherers would stare at the plant for 2 days straight and realize that it grew a millimeter. Even if there were different stages of the same plant in the area, how would they know that the plants were the same? I mean, From their little knowledge, i bet they would think that the plants were completely different. Another thing i found weird was how the people of China found out about growing more plants. Did they just find the seeds, had a sudden urge to bury it in the ground and water it? What do you guys think?
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